Upon waiting several months with my mail blocked only allowing selected mail to come through at two of my addresses because of the floods of junk mail ad's I unblocked it.  For the first two or three days all look fair and I only received two or three junk mails a day then a day or so later I received 7 or 8 per day and at least half of them were ad's for XXX related sites.  One ad really stood out and the ad itself should have been XXX rated for language.  The ad's themselves followed the rules used by phantom mailers.  They appear and vanish with no support and no one to contact to get off of their mailing lists.  They disguised their real names and addresses so you don't have much of a clue.  Still I set out to find out where they came from and with a little help and quite a lot of time I learned the actual XXX site was on Tripod.Com and the ad itself had originated through a University Internet server.  I forwarded the ad to Tripod.Com because it is against their rules for anyone to run a commercial or XXX site from their server.  This person who runs the XXX site was breaking two of the main rules of Tripod.Com.  The next day this XXX site was gone.  A day later the site was back and I received the ad once again showing the location where it had resurfaced.  Guess where it was, that's right, right back on Tripod.Com.  Once again I forwarded the ad to abuse@tripod.com and the next day the XXX site was gone again.  The very next day it was back under a new name right there on Tripod.Com.  Once again I forwarded the ad to them and once again they removed it.  This has happened 4 times now and I have a question about people like this and a theory of my own.  Only someone who was mentally ill and very dense or stupid would continue to set up an XXX site like that and send out ad's only to have it removed each time.  Only an idiot would set up again on the same server.  Why in the world doesn't this person figure out there is someone or perhaps many people on their mailing list who does not want to be on the mailing list ?

    If that person would just set up on a service that doesn't mind if they run commercial and XXX related material and then get a real lititimate mailing list then perhaps things would be different for them.  Why, because they get their Tripod.com site for free.  Tripod.com doesn't ask any questions and the computer there will literally let someone set up without any questions ask.  No human interaction is required to set up a site on Tripod.com.  No one verifies that the person getting the site is who they say they are.  For all they know it's "Little Mary Tutu" who lives in BFE.  This is why the people at Tripod.com can't enforce their rules.  All they can do is remove that person's offending site when ever someone notifies them of the offense.  They can't prevent that person from setting up there again under another name just as fast as tripod.com can remove it.

    I have learned there are ways of finding the sources of the junk mail or at least where it is sent through but I have yet to find a way to effectively block the phantom junk mailers without blocking all of the people who might want to send you e-mail.  The address of the server is listed in the message header somewhere.  Usually it is in the last "Received From" line in the header.

    Sometimes these messages come to you with a number in there instead of a domain name.  That number is the number of that server and it can be tracked to the location of the site.  For example the number in the ad of the site I have mentioned is..  http://209.67.19.98/leann444/  this number translates to one of the tripod.com servers.  This is to conceal the fact he is on tripod.com but the only thing you need to do is log on there with AOL and guess what happens ?  His XXX site comes up and right under is the tripod.com home page.  Then you can look in your address listings at the top of your browser and there you see "tripod.com" listed.  And if you wanted to send a message to that person their mailing address would be   "leann444@tripod.com"  Not that they would actually answer that message because no doubt they move around enough that they use another address for their regular mail.  But it might be worth a try.

    There are also servers and sites that provide search engines that will track down a domain name and tell you who owns it and how to contact them.  The search engines are there so you can register your own domain name and so it searches for the names to see if someone else is using that name.  If it finds them it will display information about that domain name, who owns it and where it is located. Many times it even gives mailing addresses and phone numbers.  http://www.internic.net/ is one of these sites.  If that doesn't get what you want try their other site at   http://www.internic.com/.

    These phantom mailers have methods by which they can send ad's through a server when that person who runs the server has no clue what's going on.  When you contact the people who own the server many times they don't know what you are talking about.  The reason is because phantom mailers create fictions addresses like   chopin.guangzhou.cngb.com  and there is no such domain but there is cngb.com who may or may not be responsible for the junk mail ad you received.  This address I have given here is for a server owned by someone in Beijing  China.    Their information is as follows.

Registrant:
                  Ji Tong Communications Co., Ltd. (CNGB-DOM)
                     28th Fl Electronic Tower
                     27 Wanshou Rd
                     Beijing, 100846
                     CN

                     Domain Name: CNGB.COM

                     Administrative Contact:
                        Luo, Hongde  (HL1-CN)  hongde@PUBLIC.GB.CO.CN
                        +86-10-6426 2690 (FAX) +86-10-6426 2685
                     Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
                        Liu, Zaiheng  (ZL38)  lzh@PUBLIC.GB.CO.CN
                        +86-10-6426 2690 (FAX) +86-10-6426 2685
                     Billing Contact:
                        Luo, Hongde  (HL1-CN)  hongde@PUBLIC.GB.CO.CN
                        +86-10-6426 2690 (FAX) +86-10-6426 2685

                     Record last updated on 21-Sep-97.
                     Record created on 08-Nov-96.
                     Database last updated on 28-Nov-98 04:34:02 EST.

                     Domain servers in listed order:

                     NS.CNGB.COM                  203.93.18.6
                     SNM.CNGB.COM                 203.93.18.5

What everyone needs to do is write to their state Attorney General's office dept. of Consumer Protection and tell them we need help to control the junk mailers.

I don't know about you but I for one don't want my children receiving the ad's or seeing even the front page on these XXX web sites.  These web sites post sexually explicate material right on the front page where anyone can see it and something needs to be done about it.

Bulk Mailers are protesting the blocking of their unsolicitated advertisments to members of the large on line services such as AOL. They say that AOL and services like them do not have the right to block the bulk mail advertisers.

The truth is AOL and others like them are providing the individual users of their system the ability to block the unwanted junk mail on their own. So AOL isn't actually blocking the bulk mailers, the individual users of AOL are blocking the bulk mail using AOL's mail preference settings. Yet the bulk mailers are claiming that AOL doesn't have the right to block their junk mailings. What is it the Bulk Mailers are really trying to tell us ? What do they really want us to believe ? A LIE ?

The On Line Public is saying WE DON'T WANT YOUR JUNK MAIL, it's not AOL's fault. They are just trying to help their on line users by giving them the option to select what kind of mail they want.

I have actually received messages from bulk mailers who send out unsolicitated advertisements to the on line public who imply that anyone who doesn't allow their mail box to be filled up with junk mail advertisements is a lower life form and a NUT. Are you a NUT ? I guess I am and I'm proud of it. Do you want to do business with people who insult you on first impression and lie to you ? I don't.

At the same time the same guy is developing more software to sell to US to help us fight back against the junk mailers. What's the point you ask ? Simple, he's in it for the money and playing both sides of the fence.

I just submitted one of my e-mail names to a service that says they will send out mass remove messages to all of the junk mailers. It's a free service and I was going to delte that user name today so I figured what do I have to loose, let's see if they can help reduce the junk mail.
That service is located at. 

---

If you don't like having to change your e-mailing address every time you turn around in order to avoid the junk mailer's mailing lists you are going to have to start fighting back.

As users of e-mail and the internet we are under attack from literally thousands of junk mailers all having something to sell ranging from scam's to XXX to ligitimate deals from uninformed advertisers.

Our on going fight against these junk mailers is slowly making a difference. I have received numerous messages from servers informing me that many of these accouts I have sent mail back to have been cancled (that very day) because of them sending "Spam" to the users of the internet. This tells me my efforts are not in vain. Each one of us can make a difference if we only fight back against them. If we don't we will end up like my wife, spending over 10 min a mail run and getting nothing but junk mail. Not to mention if we don't fight back now there will come a time when junk mailers will rule the internet and there will be no place for people like you and I on here.

Warning, I went to check out this (The above address) site the other day because I knew that one or two of my AOL e-mail addresses was on this list. Not thinking I hit the "don't send me any junk mail, remove me from your mailing list" command. 3 days later I received my first junk mail at this address. I hope this is not another trick of the junk mailers to get more on line names. I can't prove that's how the junk mailer got my e-mail address but found it strange that I had never received junk mail at this IPA address until after I had asked to be removed or never to be on their advertisers mailing list. I would say that if you don't receive a message from this outfit then don't click on any of their commands if you don't want Spam mail.

Ever get a call from someone telling you that you have won a prize and all you have to do is tell them who you are and read off your credit card number to them over the phone ? DON’T DO IT PEOPLE because these are scam artists and all they want is your credit card number and the date on it, which is all that is required for them to use your credit card to buy things they want. This is theft and accomplished both over the phone and over the internet. When you use your credit card to buy something over the phone no one asks to see your driver’s license so they can check the photo. Anyone can call any company having only the card number, users name and expiration date and they can buy things with anyone else’s credit card, leaving that poor person to pay the tab. This may have all ready happened to you. They have called me before but when I asked for their name, their company name and the number where I could reach their supervisor they always hang up on me.

In the past a company generally had to be somewhat legitimate in order to have the funds to design, print and afford to mail you junk mail through the US Postal Service. Then came the internet and E-Mail ! Now every scam artist, fly by night company wanting to save a dime on advertising, and any individual who has something to sell can literally fill your mail box with junk mail for a fraction of the cost of regular mail. Once they have the bulk mailing software it is very simple to buy a mailing list from cold blooded individuals who have no value for people’s privacy and start sending out the mail.

It sounds like a good idea at first! The tricks these people pull are abundant. They even had the bright idea of starting up a master remove list. They tell you that if you want to be removed from all the junk mailers lists that all you need to do is send your name to them along with any other e-mail names that you may use telling them you don’t want any junk mail at any of the following e-mail addresses. I tried this on two occasions but only gave the e-mail name they all ready were aware of just to see what would happen. Suddenly my junk mail doubled and in two months time it had tripled at these two addresses. I have 9 different e-mail addresses each one used for something different. I get floods of junk mail at 3 of my e-mail addresses. I get moderate junk mail at the other 4 addresses and none at the other two address. Guess where these 7 e-mail names are where I get all my junk mail at ? That’s right their on America On Line. The other two (this one at this web site) and the other on JUNO have never received any junk mail and I want to keep it like that. Imagine what would have happened had I given those junk mailers all of my e-mail addresses. I would have started to receive the same junk mail at every single address. Even at this point it has nearly put me out of business on AOL where I have another web site that I hate to loose but may one day because of the junk mail I receive there.

Why is all of this the case ? Besides the fact that bulk e-mail is practically free when compared to the US Mail system the people who write these bulk e-mail programs are only concerned about the money it puts in their own pockets. They do not care how many people they offend or how their consumers/users apply their product. They will use hype and lies to market their software if that is what is required. They tell people what a great method of advertising they have and how many people they will reach. They tell them on the average 3% to 5% of the people they reach will respond to their ads. What they don’t tell them is the 95% of the ones who may not respond have been offended by the mail they get which they didn’t ask for and do not want. They don’t tell them the 3 to 5% who may respond are simply uninformed individuals who are new to the internet and not familiar with the methods used by the scam artists to promote their illegal activities while fleecing the public.

They don’t tell the people who buy their bulk e-mail systems that you generally can’t do business with people when your first impression was to offend them time and time again. I for one will not do business with people or companies who offend me and junk mail offends me and actually damages my own work on the internet.

They don’t tell them the reason why AOL and other large internet servers have taken the issue to court, why they try to block the junk mail. It’s really very simple because AOL and others like them have received floods of complaints from their users asking them to do something to curb or stop the bombardment of junk mail. The AOL staff is at wits end even now trying to find some solution that will keep everyone happy but in this case the majority does not rule. The 95% of the users of AOL don’t want the junk in their mail boxes, but they have practically no say over the mater because the junk mailers basically won in court.

They don’t tell the people who use their bulk e-mail systems that the majority of the people who use their software now are scam artists and unscrupulous businesses and individuals selling snake potions. They don’t tell them that if they use this form of advertisement they will be joining the ranks of those hated by 95% of the users of the internet.

They don’t tell them the reason they had to go to stealth methods used by their software was to avoid the blocking system used by both large internet servers like AOL as well as individual junk mail blocking systems used by other companies to try to prevent the flow of junk mail into their systems. If they don’t want it, it obviously offends them so why do they try so hard to get mail into their systems when they know it will not be met with open arms ?

It’s STEALTH so they can’t track you back or block you, why ? Because of that same 95% of the users of the internet who despise the use and users of junk mail systems.

It has filters that will scan and read the mail for you, why ? Because besides the fact that you couldn’t read all the floods of mail that would come back to you because of it about 80% of it would be hate mail and remove messages and 5-10% of it would be letters similar to the one I send them. The rest (like my wife and children) simply delete the junk mail with a sigh and say "there’s nothing we can do about it."

Have you read some of the lies these people use in their advertisements ?

"We saw you in the ‘such and such’ chat area and thought you might like to check out our web site?"

I NEVER WAS IN THE CHAT AREAS WHERE THEY SAY THEY FOUND MY E-MAIL ADDRESS.

"I found your e-mail address in the AOL profiles area and thought you might be interested in.."

I don’t have any profiles on AOL simply because I wanted to prevent the flood of junk mail to my mail boxes, but they found me anyway didn’t they ? And then they lie to me about it. I for one won’t do business with people who lie to me, no one should.

How about this one..

"I don’t want to offend you so I will make it quick!"

OH BOY THAT REALLY EASES THE PAIN. They all ready know they are going to offend you before they send the message, but that doesn’t stop them does it ?

Here’s another good one.

"No need to send a remove message. You will only receive this message once. If you don’t respond you will be removed from the mailing list."

Then you find this same message from the same people in your mail box 2 in one day and one more the next day and then again like this about every other week until you call them on the phone and tell them to remove your e-mail address from their mailing lists.

The latest one that got my attention are the ones that actually give you an address and command to be removed from their mailing lists but every time you send to them you get the remove message back saying it could not be delivered. One of them keeps changing the address from "remove" to remove1 to remove2 and now it’s remove3 and not a single one of the remove messages I have sent out to them have manage to get through. What do you do ? You forward the messages to AOL and hope someone there can do something to help.

There are two places that unsolicited advertisements should be against the law. Over the phone and over the internet in e-mail. Both are methods used to scam and harass the general public and both are against the law.

I sometimes spend 4 to 6 hours a day reading, sorting and answering e-mail. The one thing that makes my job the hardest is sorting through the junk mail and trying to put a stop to it. Sending out remove messages when I can. It is a never ending job that becomes worse despite my efforts to even slow it down because as the internet grows more and more people will use this form of advertising. If you don’t attempt to do something to slow it down it multiplies over time until you receive nothing but junk mail. I don’t know how many times I have accidentally deleted legitimate mail to me while deleting 30 or 40 junk mails that I had no time or desire to even read.

The only way we in the 90-95% group who don’t want unsolicited advertisements filling our e-mail boxes can do anything substantial is to find a way to present a law that prohibits the use and mailing of unsolicited advertisements. A law that will enforce stiff fines and perhaps even jail time for multiple offenders. Yes this will help prevent those 3 to 5% people who may actually like or take advantage of these scams and snake oils but this is America and the majority should rule. Besides that we may prevent some poor old couple from loosing their life savings at the hands of one of these scam artists who steel people’s credit card numbers via e-mail. If it would help even a few people it would be worth the effort to try to stop this form of advertising.

Remember that if you are receiving junk mail at this time, it will only continue to get worse once your e-mail address is on their lists. The lists are sold and resold to other advertisers. The more the list is passed along the more junk mail you will receive. Methods for gathering addresses are available to anyone who wants to create their own lists.

At the end of the e-mail messages you will find a list of servers and computers their mail must go through in order to get to you. You will frequently find addresses in the message that will allow you to report the offending junk mailers to the server they have used to route their mail through. Shawn's text file will give you some valuable information how to find the right addresses to send a report back to the server where the offending junk mailer originated their mail from.

If you reply to a junk mailer to ask them to remove you from their mailing list 99% of the time you will receive the message back saying the person you tried to send it to does not exist or could not be found. The address they sent the junk mail from was created, the mail was routed, then after the mail transmission the address was deleted so that you could not respond to them directly using E-Mail.

This is very similar to the methods used by phone solicitators who use a caller ID blocker to prevent the people they call from knowing who they are and where they are calling from. When my phone rings I check the Caller ID to see if it says "Private#" and if it does I simply do not answer the phone because I know who ever is calling is using a caller ID blocker and they do not want me to know where they are calling from.

The following is the header information from a junk mail advertiser.

----------------------- Headers --------------------------------

You can forward this message back to the system where it originated by sending it to...

Postmaster@mail99.com, Abuse@mail99.com, Support@mail99.com

Use your imagination and forward your protests to as many of the addresses that you can find in the header until someone responds to you allowing you to know your complaint actually reached a correct address. I have sent mail back to numerous addresses that I have found in other junk mail headers. Some are routed through as many as 3 and 4 different systems before they are actually mailed out to the recipients. They do this in an attempt to prevent the recipients from locating the correct origin of the junk mail.

You know that they know 95% of the people who receive the mail they send out are not going to receive it with open arms and that at least 10% of those who receive the junk mail are going to complain about it. Yet they don't care about the 95%, they are looking for that 3 to 5% who will support their efforts. They don't realize that if they were using legitimate methods to advertise their products they might even gain another 3 to 5% from the people they offended by using spam mail techniques. People who are offended by certain advertising techniques will usually not do business with the advertiser.

Click here for an examples of a response I received from a system server who responded to my complaints they had a user violating their server rules/policy.

Letter from Earthlink about junkmailers included in examples.

The following is the form letter that I wrote and use to send out to as many of the junk mailers as I can. The one’s who give any address that I can e-mail back to that is. Feel free to copy it and send it just as I do to the junk mailers.

The following is the form letter I use to send out to the junk mailers who give an address that I may respond to. Sometimes you may want to make certain changes or addititions to the letter to suit the purpose or individual case. So edit it to suit your own needs.

Just a little advice to you.

First of all you are not using a legitimate advertising mailing list for people who want to receive advertisements. AOL has such a list and mailing to the names on that list will help you avoid harassing the general e-mailing public.

It almost appears as if you may be a legit company with a legitimate deal.

I want you to be aware that junk mail has all but put me out of business at this e-mail address. The vote for dropping my e-mail address is 48.9 % and that is solely do to the flood of unsolicited advertisements, JUNK MAIL that I receive at this address. If I get a 50.1% vote this e-mail address will cease to exist.

Everywhere I turn someone is trying to sell me something that I am not interested in and must spend hours of my valuable time trying to put a stop to the floods of unwanted mail at my e-mail addresses.

Anyone who has an e-mail address can fill anyone's e-mail boxes with advertisements and the odds are the most of them are not even legitimate companies. Part of my work involves consumer awareness reviews and warnings. Countless scams run wild on the internet at this time. One of the last one's that caught my eye was someone claiming to be taking a poll and listing 900 numbers in order for people to vote either yes or no one the issues. Anyone can set up a 900 number system and your vote means nothing but money in their pocket. They can come up with anything at the drop of a hat to take a poll over and send junk mail out to get unsuspecting people to make that call.

When remove directions are given in the junk mailings I will use them but about 50% of the time the commands will not work. This forces me to simply hand the junk mail over to the AOL team in charge of trying to stop the junk mail.

Sometimes they say in the message this is a one time mailing, but sometimes, usually about 40% of the time I receive another mailing from them about the same thing. Once again I have to hand it over to the AOL junk mail team. Not that it does any good you see, but it lets AOL know I am not pleased with the junk mail problem I must deal with.

I have even had these "one time mailings" end up as several dupes in my e-mail box, what are they thinking ? Can’t they even count ?

The Junk mailers that take your money and then harass internet users with your advertisements don’t want to be contacted, they don’t want to be blocked, they don’t care what frustrations they cause people so they use phantom mailers that can’t be blocked, traced, and you can’t consult with their postmaster because they simply won’t be there when you try to send them mail back. They are in it to get your money for using their service and all your ad’s accomplish is to offend 95-98% of the people who receive your advertisement. The question to you is, do you want to offend people or do you want to do business with them ?

In other very frustrating cases I have actually had to call the people who advertised through the junk mailers and told them to remove my e-mail address from their mailings. It was the only way I could reach them to have them remove me from their mailings.

I have a rule, I never do business with junk mailers who send me advertisements in e-mail, that I didn't ask them for in the first place. I do not do business with telephone solicitors either because I consider this form of advertisement harassment. Even if they may mention something I may be interested in I will not do business with them because of their method of advertising.

I recommend that if you are a legitimate and have a product to offer the public you should stop using a method used by scam artists to advertise your product. You should simply set up your web site with key words, register with the search engines so people can find you if you have what they want. You can also advertise through agents such as JUNO who have a unique inoffensive method of reaching millions of people who use e-mail. There are new e-mail and access systems that use similar methods to advertise that do not offend their users. Please do some research into these areas. I do believe your response from people who have been offended by floods of junk mail will bring you new customers who would not have done business with you otherwise.

Now if you would please remove me from all your advertisements mailing lists that would help me.

There's no charge for this good advice even though it has cost me the time it has taken to write this message. However if you would follow my advice and then pass the information along to other legitimate advertisers it would help them and the people who are being blasted with junk mail they don't want.

Thank you.

Very Frustrated AOL user.

*If you want to be removed from our mailing list, please respond to this email and put "Remove" in the subject line; our computer system will remove you immediately. We very much do not want to send E Mail to those who do not wish to receive it; however, if you do not type "Remove" in the subject line and send this E Mail back to us, your name cannot be removed, as much as we wish to do so. Thanks for your help.

We will send out your bulk E Mail. Period. No qualifiers, no conditions, no nonsense...and we'll do it at the best prices.

Call us at (818) 701-2001 (Go right ahead and call him. what do you want to bet the phone line is also a recording machine that will filter out your protests and get you no real person or a response at the other end?)

We are Product Link. We are a business partner with a marketing company which develops buyers for its clients' products through electronic marketing; primarily broadcast fax. Together, we have over a hundred clients, almost 10% of which are Fortune 500 companies. We have numerous staff, and have just begun, at client request, to send high volumes of E Mail. (If you have all ready lost one or more e-mail accouts or addresses because of junk mailers this should frighten you. Not to mention that any respectable fortune 500 company would never use junk mailing methods.)

If you're new to Bulk E Mail marketing, as we were a short time ago, I can confirm that all the E Mails you've been getting from E Mail software companies about how great E Mail marketing is; well, they're true. However, as those of you who have already purchased software and have tried bulk E mail know, nothing good ever comes easy.

Our staff has spent millions of advertising dollars on our clients' behalf; everything from commercials on the Superbowl to ads in the New York Times, to full page spreads in Scientific American.; not to mention the sending of over 1,000,000 marketing faxes a year for major corporations.

Bulk E mail has been quite an eye opener. (Yes it has, it has opened our eyes to the fact that junk mailers like this are the lowest life forms on the earth. I can say this without a doubt because this weekend I am going to be forced to delete two of my e-mail addresses because I can't get away from the junk mailers.)

The Internet, the on line services and ISP providers are full of shrill, self appointed "net cops," whose mission in life seems to be dumping on those who have the audacity to sell product via E Mail. I don't wish nor intend to debate the issue here, except to say that if you've purchased bulk E Mail software (or intend to), you've already found out that when you attempt to use it, your ISP provider will shut you down, your E Mail account will be bombed, and electronic flames from the folks we call "Internuts" will become a way of life. (Here you see this advertiser has no respect for individuals who are offended by or actually put out of business thanks to their efforts in sending unsolicitated spam mail to the general on line public. These people have the audacity to dump on us all the time but yet it is we who have to bare the cross for our privacy and take the blame from what, people like this ? Forget it. Still there are several important things that can be drawn out of this paragraph. First of all if you are thinking about becoming a spam mailer you had better think twice because this guy is telling you that people do object to unsolicitated advertisements and they will fight back. It also tells us he has a pet name for us, "internuts" and this tell us that if we object then it is we who are to blame and not them/him.)

Since we have a low tolerance for allowing small groups of vocal fanatics to dictate our business life, we set up our own system to send out Bulk E Mail. This system will be greatly expanded in 30 days or so (we're installing more T lines), but we currently have room on our system to send out Bulk E Mail for a limited number of companies or individuals other than ourselves. (These small groups he mentions is greater than the 3 to 5% favorable response you might expect from their efforts in sending this spam mail to everyone. The trick is to keep their client from knowing just how many people were offended by their efforts. So they filter out all the negitive responses so the client won't know just how many people will never again do business with them because of their being offended by this form of advertisement.)

We'll send out your order, large or small. We'll do it quickly, and we'll do it at a really great price. You can supply the list, or we'll supply the list. Place an order with us, and we'll give you advice on how to set up your E Mail so your on line service provider won't shut you down, how to write your material, and much more. We will also write your marketing material, if you so desire. If you supply a list, we can run it through our computer program to sort out all duplicates and bad AOL or CompuServe addresses. If you buy a list from us, we will guarantee that the exact number of names you order will go out; if we send a list for you and a number of addresses are not delivered, we will send out more E Mails until you get delivered exactly what you ordered. We can even tell you how to confirm that your list was sent. (If he's so smart why are they in the process of shutting him down as you read this ? But in a way he's right because these guys reincarnate over and over agian. There is no real way to get rid of them as long as someone is willing to spend money on this kind of service there will always be someone there ready to provide it.)

We also have programs that can filter out E Mail "bombs" and other irritating toys played with at your expense by people who don't have a life. As part of our service, at no extra charge we will set up a special E Mail box for you just to receive the responses, both good and bad, to your campaign. We filter out the "please remove me from your list" requests, along with the negative responses from the "Internuts," and forward your actual leads to you. (He freely admits they filter out all the hate mail so you don't have to read it and you will never be aware of how many people were offended by these efforts. Is that the kind of advertising you want to use ? And they are the ones who are mail bombing the general on line public. Trick to that is they have a program that can as he says filter out all the unfavorable responses. It won't make much difference anyway because you can bet this guy won't be maling from the same address each time and there will be no real way to answer him.)

When we first began exploring bulk E mail, we contacted numerous firms advertising that they would send out bulk E mail. What we got was answering machines, disconnected numbers, and no call backs. The one firm that did contract us would only send limited numbers of E mails for us, and then only if we had already sent the list out once and taken off all the removes (go figure...if we could send out the list once, what did we need them for?). We finally got so exasperated, we set up our own system. And are we glad we did. Speaking as a marketing man with over 30 years experience in major advertising, E Mail marketing will change the face of advertising and cost of sale forever. I do not believe that has ever been a vehicle like it in history to allow anyone of any size and any budget to advertise and sell their products literally overnight. We employ 18 people, and I guarantee you that when you contact us as (818) 701-2001, you'll get a call back. Right away. (Here he admits they don't even have a real person answering the phone. It is an answering machine so no real person ever picks up the phone. In order to get them to talk to you in person you must trick them by telling them you are interested in their service. When they call you back then you can let them know how you would like to really be removed from their mailing list.)

Following is a price list to give you an idea of the quality of our company. Please bear in mind that Bulk E Mail is most effective in large numbers.

All prices listed include our setting up a special E Mail Box for you to receive all responses, "take me off your list" requests, and hassles from Internuts, as well as your leads.

We will forward only your leads to you.

Price List To Send Bulk E Mail:

Amount Cost Set Up (One Time Fee)

50,000 $200.00 $50.00 (Includes The E Mail List)

100,000 $350.00 $50.00 (Includes The E Mail List)

150,000 $425.00 $50.00 (Includes The E Mail List)

250,000 $575.00 $50.00 (Includes The E Mail List)

500,000 $775.00 $50.00 (Includes The E Mail List)

1,000,000 $975.00 $50.00 (Includes The E Mail List)

If you wish us to program a "hot link" in your E Mail message so someone can simply "click" on it and be transferred to your WEB site, the charge is $50.00. Bulk E Mail amounts above 1,000,000 per sending will be bid on a case by case basis.

If you wish to modem us a list, there may be a small charge for down load depending on list size. If you wish us to "clean" your list (remove all duplicates and bad addresses), we will supply a bid on a case by case basis as with writing your marketing materials and other services.

If we may be of service to you, please call us directly at (818) 701-2001. Thank you.

----------------------- Headers --------------------------------

From bulkemail@hybridlogic.com Sat Apr 12 01:44:46 1997

Return-Path: <bulkemail@hybridlogic.com>

Received: from germany.it.earthlink.net (germany-c.it.earthlink.net [204.250.46.123]) by emin07.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-2.0.0) with ESMTP id BAA10310; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 01:43:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jj.kl.ot (max2-sc-ca-36.earthlink.net [206.85.117.136]) by germany.it.earthlink.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA16007; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 22:28:01 -0700 (PDT)

Message-Id: <199704120528.WAA16007@germany.it.earthlink.net> <This junk mail came through and from earthlink.net who has all ready been notified of this offending junk mailer and will have their accout cancled by the time you read this message. Trust me though they will reappear somewhere else and route their mail through other systems until they are caught and cancled agian and again. They will not give up as long as someone is willing to pay them to mail bomb the on line public.>

From: Product Link <bulkemail@hybridlogic.com>

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 22:25:23 PDT

Subject: We Will Send Out Your Bulk E Mail

While trying to find a way to be removed from a junk mailers mailing list I called a number that I found today in a junk mailer advertisement. The man at the other end of the phone said that a bulk e-mail service had approached them and told them what a great deal bulk e-mail advertising was in this day and age. He finally sold them on the idea and they tried it. He said it was the worst advertising decision they had ever made. He told me their 800 number was ringing off the hook with protests from people wanting to be removed from their mailing list. He talked to me for a moment then laughed and said it was finally nice to talk to someone on the phone who wasn't cussing him out. He told me that his company would never again use bulk e-mailing methods to advertise their products. At that moment the other line rang and it was someone else calling to protest the reception of unsolicited bulk e-mail advertisements. Their phone was so busy with protests they couldn't even do business as usual. Guess what, that was an 800 number and they were the ones paying the price of each one of those protest calls to their office. Is that what you want for your busienss ? I don't think so, so don't let the bulk mailers talk you into sending mail to people who didn't all ready subscribe for that kind of advertisement.

Everyone has a need to make money and if someone has something to sell they must advertise in order to let people know who they are and what they have for sale. We all understand this, but what might be acceptable by some may not be by others. In the terms of e-mail advertisements about 3 to 5% of the people using e-mail and on line services are not offended by junk mail, the other 95% of the users of e-mail are offended when they receive junk mail. It costs us money to receive that unwanted mail, it takes up our time to sort through it and try to put a stop to it and no one compensates us for that time and effort. It is stolen from us without our consent.

While sending out unsolicited advertisements is not yet against the law stealing a person's money and harassing people is against the law. Junk mailers are thieves who slide by the law and steal from people while harassing them in the process. If you have ever had phone solicitors call you on the phone and annoy the hell out of you, then imagine this times 100 for junk mail. Why, because it is cheaper to send out junk mail than to call every individual over the phone. Because of this more advertisements go out via unsolicited advertisements in e-mail than any other form of advertisement.

If someone has something to sell chances are they will be willing to lie to you in order to get your business!

The people who are advertising their bulk e-mail systems are lying to you when they say it is the most effective form of advertisement in existence today. In fact it is the least effective form of advertisement there is in existence today and the reason is because it offends that 95% of the people who receive it. The truth is, it is the cheapest form of advertisement there is today and that is the only truth they may tell you while trying to sell their bulk e-mail systems.

If you have read this entire message and are now aware that 95% of the people who receive junk mail advertisements will not receive it with joy and about 10% of them will come looking for you to tell you they hate junk mail, you also know you may loose another 5% or more of the people who might do business with you had you not used junk mailer methods to advertise your product with in the first place.

If you have a product to sell and you want people to receive it without being offended you must find a method of advertisement that is effective and inoffensive.

Set up a web site for your product. Register with the better search engines such as InfoSeek and use the correct key words for your web site so that people can find you with ease. Set up a command on your web site to allow people to select if they want to receive e-mail advertisements or not. Do not send mail to anyone who is not on the list. You can even sell your list of names to other advertisers. Give the users the option to be on the list for other advertisers. If they asked for the advertisements they are no longer considered "unsolicited" and they can't complain if they receive floods of junk mail.